Mauser 7x57 ?

[kc5gxc]

Howdy..
This is my first post. I have just bought a Mauser rifle at the Hattiesburg, MS, gunshow today.
Seller said it's a 7x57 and he has shot it, so guess he's right.
If anyone can help me with the ID of this, I will appreciate it.

On the bolt handle, it has: 2BGA23G but not positive of all markings.
On the left side of the receiver: 9230 Deutche Waffen-und
munitions farbriken. Berlin I may not have capitilized the right letters.
On the bottom of magazine plate: C960 5736
On the safety housing left: 823

A friend says it's a commercial Mauser.
No other marks on it. Nothing on top of receiver ring. No lip there for the handguard to slip into either.....can't figure that out, unless someone ground it off, but it doesn't look that way.
The front of the stock has been reshaped. (cut back/sporterized) Only thing holding the handguard on is the front barrel band (or maybe the middle barrel band since it's been cut)....and the rear sight. No lip on receiver ring, but the handguard is made to fit into one.

That's about it. Does someone recognize this rifle?
Thanks for any help.
Pete in MS

[CoorsLightGuy]

First of all, welcome to the Gun Collectors Forum!

It sounds like it may very well be a Mauser. Is the bolt straight or bent?
Any chance of posting some pics? That way we can be sure we're giving you good advice.

If you're not 100% sure about the round that it uses, you may want to have a gunsmith check it for you to confirm. Most Mausers are either 7mm (7x57) or 8mm (7.92x57). So there is a good chance that it is in fact 7mm as he told you.

I'm sure that others will chime in with more info, but I wanted to make sure that someone gave you a response.

[WmRoy]

WELCOME!!

Well, I would say without a photo....... that it probably is a commercial mauser (it absolutely is a mauser). HOWEVER, I'm not sure how you sporterize a commercial mauser? Could have originally had a full stock and some fool cut it down? Personally, I've always liked the looks of the commercial mausers. Good Find!! The 7mm mauser is one of my personal favorites, why I can't say? Just something about the 7mmX57mm that I really like??

If you can post a photo or two, that would be of great help! If you haven't already, I would take the rifle to a Smithy to have the headspace (and caliber) checked out.

God Bless,
WmRoy

[xpertgreg]

welcome to the forum and have fun with your new affliction. these old gals are just like tater chips, no one can have just one!

gw

[DOGolden]

Got pictures? That would really help. 7x57 is a nice caliber to shoot. Not too much recoil and somewhat accurate. Welcome aboard...

[kc5gxc]

Thanks for all the info....I will post a pic....when I make one...ha.
The bolt is straight.....the front end of stock is cut off . A recoil pad is attached...the stock has been poly-ed. Looks nice,but sure ain't original. No band holds the back of the handguard on. Wonder where that went?
I will get on that pic and send.
Thanks, Pete

[WmRoy]

We'll look forward to seeing it there Pete!

Take a cruise thru the rest of the forum and speak up where you feel compelled......... ;)

[kc5gxc]

Here is the pic.....not good, but I am no camera expert.
Thanks, Pete

[WmRoy]

hmmmmmmmmmm...............

[kc5gxc]

I will read up on the camera...maybe in the light of the sun, I can get a pic of the side of the receiver, or any other pics, if more are needed.
Pete

[CoorsLightGuy]

Try to get a better view of the action as I can't tell for sure if it IS a Mauser action or not. I'm sure it probably is, but I can't tell from that pic.

Maybe someone else can. I'm blind in one eye and can't see out of the other one.

[SAC22PPC]

military...would like a couple of pics of the action area of it. one from above(to clearly show its markings and design) and one from the left side(agan to show its markings).
from the looks so far i would say you could restore to original military config. i doubt they drilled and tapped holes for a scope when it still has a straight handle.

if i were to guess its model i would say its an m95 built for some south american country. my personal bias is toward m98 mausers so i dont know a whole lot about the lower model numbers, sorry.

[kc5gxc]

Howdy
I will get the pics tomorrow and have 'em here by afternoon is all goes well.
When I said "sporterized" , I meant only that the stock forward part has been removed, a recoil pad installed and it's refinished. No alterations to the metal.
Also, the piece that holds the back of the handguard down on the receiver is missing.....have not disassembled, so don't know how that piece was attached to the receiver.
Thank you for the help.
Pete

[WmRoy]

I agree with Sac. It's definitely military. And it's likely a South American contract. A couple of better pictures would be great. Do you have a copy of Robert Ball's "Mauser Military Rifles of the World"?

[kc5gxc]

Howdy
Well, I 've been trying for an hour to post some pics.....site won't let me do it....keeps telling me to log in...and I'm logged in. Maybe I'll try later.
Pete in MS

[CoorsLightGuy]

Howdy
Well, I 've been trying for an hour to post some pics.....site won't let me do it....keeps telling me to log in...and I'm logged in. Maybe I'll try later.
Pete in MS

You may have a corrupt cookie or cache. You might try logging out of the site and then back in again. Or simply deleting the cookie for this site and then logging back in.

[kc5gxc]

Howdy....
Well, here's what it's telling me...after I am logged in.
How do I delete those cookies?
Thanks, Pete


You are not logged in or you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
You are not logged in. Fill in the form at the bottom of this page and try again.
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[kc5gxc]

I got em!!!
I found the cookies place and deleted them all......that must have been the problem. Thank you.
Here are some pics....Hope they tell something. Note the hold down ring is missing on handguard. Can I purchase another one, or was it welded to receiver?
I still don't know the model of this rifle. (95?)
Thanks for all the help.
Pete

[CoorsLightGuy]

Glad you got the cookie problem fixed. I'll let the others help with identifying it as I'm the least knowledgeable person here.

[SAC22PPC]

i am thinking south american contract gun in 7x57, stock cut down bubba'd and there we have it. it is NOT 96 or higher model.
while i do not have personal knowledge about the handguard retainer i would guess its simular to other ones of the period and is a removable flanged ring. the 1903 springfield and 1917eddystone had this same way of holding the rear of the handguard on.
again my focus is on the 98 and not before so i am probably full of it here.

[kc5gxc]

Hi....thanks for the info....in doing some more research, I have found that it's a '93 . Guess it was made for somebody, who knows? .... and....all crests were ground off, but I can't see evidence of that...don't mean it wasn't done....
Yep....Bubba got a'hold of it.....
Shot it and it shoots all over the place. Have only 136 grain bullets and think it needs something heavier. However, I see no rifling at muzzle. Think it's worn off, possibly by cleaning rod wear. The rest of the rifling looks pretty good...what's the solution to make it shoot??? any ideas?
Thanks, Pete/MS

[WmRoy]

Spanish 93's are often ground off.......

[CoorsLightGuy]

Someone else knows better than me, I'm sure, but perhaps the barrel needs to be recrowned.

If not that, perhaps replace the barrel?

[WmRoy]

It sounds like a recrown job to me as well. That will very likely tight it's groupings significantly.

My Spanish m93 is pretty straight shooting. I really love that old gun..... wish I had the time to get out and shoot her more.....

[HerrMesser]

If the recrowning does no good then it might need counterbored.

Rad

[DOGolden]

Recrowning may work. Counterboring may work. A new barrel will definitely work...

[kc5gxc]

Howdy...thanks for all the info...and I forgot to say that I do not have that historical rifle book mentioned earlier...sorry.
Looking into the muzzle, the rifling seems to peter out getting close to muzzle. Cleaning rod wear looks like the culprit. Can see some pitting close to muzzle, and I guess the barrel has some, but I can't see it....I see lots of rifling, and it looks good to me. Those rounds I shot were 139gr, not 136.
How does one counterbore? I have recrowned a barrel before, and it shoots great. Never counterbore.
I used to have an Argentine 7x57. It shot really good....I killed a deer with it. My friend talked me out of it....ha ha.
Thanks, Pete in MS

[SAC22PPC]

to counter bore they would set the barrel up in a lathe and run a drill bit into the barrel a couple of inches(dependant on how far it is to good rifling). next they would have a tool made that would be used to lap the new crown inside of the barrel. where the drill bit stopped would become the new crown and would be lapped there.

[kc5gxc]

Is it within the realm of an amateur gunsmith to remove and replace the barrel and set the headspace?? Special tools needed?
Thanks, Pete

[SAC22PPC]

basic tools needed are;
reciever wrench $45
barrel vice $45
chamber reamer $100
chamber headspacing guages $40
deapthmicrometer (some use one some dont) $30
book containing info on barreling $20

some of the tooling i chose the cheaper ones out there. for instance the barrel vice. mine is a brownells cost is over $100 for it, works perfectly and can see why the guy strongly recomended it to me.
some of the tools just plain cost too much to use but one time. the reamer and headspacing guages can be used over and over. the guages last a lifetime if not abused, the reamer i have heard you can do 20 barrels before it will need sharpening if great care is taken. the deapthmicrometer falls into this category, it like the headspacing guages last a lifetime. some use the reamer rental companies, i have not so i will hold comment.

i would sugest if you are just looking to have but one rifle rebarreled have it done by someone else. if however your looking to get into it as a hobby or more like myself then go for it. cost to have someone do it for you should be around the $100 mark. much depends on the guy doing the work. some guys just slap them together while others take their time and match the barrel to the reciever. i am in this for the target shooting aspect so i go with the matching the barrel to the reciever, takes more time(and tooling) but produces a far better rifle.
so if your going to rebarrel but one gun pay to have it done.

[kc5gxc]

Thanks for the info, SAC. Well....I don't really need to spend more bucks on another rifle, so I may just leave it alone. Don't really want to reload for another one, either...ha ha ha. I may just swap it off, or something.
I have been on Brownell's looking at the tools....it would be fun to do it, but not economical as you said. I sure appreciate the good info you have given me...as well as the good info from all the others here..great site for learning about these firearms.
Thanks
Pete / MS

[SAC22PPC]

by all means hang around, its always nice to make new friends and have new people to bs with.

[kc5gxc]

Thanks for the invite SAC (and everyone else). I am debating chopping this rifle up....and it may disturb some of the guys here.... Since it won't shoot, and I don't have much in it. I would have already cut off the barrel in increments 'till I found good rifling, but I can't figure how to get a front sight back on it. Looks like the pillar for the sight is part of the barrel.
Another option would be to install a scope (pistol scope) where the back sight is. Would have to figure how to attach a rail of some sort. Ramline sells a stock for about $85.
Guess I'll mull it over for awhile.
Thanks, Pete

[SAC22PPC]

you could just have it altered for a scope with a normal base and rings. that would include drill/tap for the mount and either forging the bolt handle or welding a new handle onto the bolt. also a low saftey to clear the scope.
if you wish to do the scout style scope setup theres mounts out there for it. some of these guys here have used them. DOG!!! fill him in on the scout scope mounts please.
the front sight if normal should be a ring with a pillar rising up away from it. this ring is then held in place with a set screw and solder. the way to first remove it is to push the sight blade out of the base, try to unscrew the set screw if it will not turn wait until you get a torch up and running to unscrew it. next just that heat the base get the screw out if need be and slowly gently tap on the base until it drops off the end of the barrel. have a gunsmith chop a bit off of the barrel until he gets to good rifling, of course he could have removed the front sight all along! make sure he puts it back on or you will end up like i am right now...i have no way of setting my sights up so they are top dead center of the barrel and so the gun shoot goofy! until i can get a couple of my rifles sights set up properly its just the way they are going to have to be, but then again i dont care for mauser sights in the first place.

[kc5gxc]

Howdy SAC and all....
Well, I cut off 5" this AM and still have terrible rifling at the muzzle. Can see obvious pits in the barrel now. I recrowned it and need to try it as I do have some rifling now.
I will try to get the front sight off and back on the shortened barrel to try. Thanks for the info on how it's attached.
I found a scout scope mount that mounts to the rear sight mounting area. Costs about $40. If I can determine it will shoot fair...I may get one.
I'll keep you posted on the results of my efforts.
Thanks, Pete

[kc5gxc]

Howdy all......SAC, I see how the front sight is now....boy, the machining is so good, I couldn't see the ring on the muzzle, but the heat got solder coming out of it....can't loosen the screw , even with heat, but ain't gonna need it anyway and would have to turn the muzzle down to replace...
Looking for the info you mentioned on the scope bases....Brownell's has one by CNC specialties that is a scout mount that mounts on the rear sight mounting plate, but they don't specify if it's for the '93. I got an e mail in to their guntech about it.....does DOG or anyone know of any in paticular that are no gunsmithing hookups??
Thanks, Pete

[SAC22PPC]

i know dog was using scout setups on a couple of guns at one time, soooo i figurted he might know something. hmmmmmm ask up in the regular thread.

http://www.guncollectorsforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3

then move your convo down to the workbench forum.http://www.guncollectorsforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=23

the last one is where this should be now that your working on it rather than looking for info on the rifle.
lets just see who bites?