H&R .22 ID Question

[Silverspring]

I just bought what looks to be a 9-shot double action H&R Sportsman, but with a few differences.

First, the barrel rollmark reads - H&R "22 Special" - quotes included.

Second, the front sight is a brass blade, with no adjustment screw.

Last, the trigger guard has no finger rest behind it. I've never seen a Sportsman without that unique detail.

It has an early Bird's head frame, and the serial is 6015XX - no letters, six digits. Leaf spring, one-piece grip.

I guess the front blade and the trigger guard could be replacements, but the rollmark still puzzles me. It's in wonderful shape, just holster wear on the muzzle and cylinder. Bore is like a mirror. Fit is great.

Only downsides are: a little cylinder play(not too much), the extractor "teeth" are a little worn, the extractor seems to bind a little bit, not always rising to full height. My biggest concern is that the hammer doesn't rebound - it stays fully down when it falls. I would need to manually pull it back one click to close it on live rounds safely. I'm not sure this is a malfunction, it might just be poor design.

I'm not concerned about it's value, I paid $175. I'd just like to know more. Any info would be much appreciated. Thanks.

A couple of pics below-

[xpertgreg]

Welcome to CGF Silverspring! I have no help to offer, but I'm sure one of our guys will be along soon with some info for you.

gw

[rugerwheels]

Your gun looks to me more like an H & R Automatic Ejecting Model, possibly the Premier variant. I think all the Auto Ejectors had the half oval, non-adjustable blade front sight. Don't know about H & R markings. As you point out, (I believe) all Sportsman models had a trigger guard spur that filled the gap between guard and grip. See this auction:

http://www.soldusa.com/detail.asp?id=9293&bigpic=0#img

[Silverspring]

Thanks for the welcome, this looks like a pretty helpful forum.

Well, according to the parts lists on Numrich, both the New and Old Automatic Ejecting models and the New and Old Premier variations had 7 round cylinders, and this one is 9.

[rugerwheels]

You are right; my source was Pistols of the World by Hogg & Walter wherein the photos of your gun and the Auto Ejecting models looked the same. But # of shots not listed there. I checked descriptions in Blue Book of Gun Values and found 2 models that might fit:
"Model 922 - .22 LR cal. first issue, 9 shot, 10 in. octagonal barrel on early models, 6 in. round barrel on later models, checkered walnut grips. Some early guns were marked "22 SPECIAL" on left barrel"
and
".22 SPECIAL" - .22LR, or .22 WRF cal., 9 shot, double action, 6 in. barrel, break open, large frame, blue only, gold plated front sight, walnut grips."
Other 9 shots listed have adjustable sights.
Hope this helps.
Don

[WmRoy]

Welcome Aboard Silverspring!

[Silverspring]

Rugerwheels-

Thanks for the info. I think the 922 only came as a solid frame, so it must be the "22 Special" - that description fits it to a T. I've never heard of it.

Anybody have any idea of when it was made, or where it fits in the order of the other models? It seems like it would be a precursor to the Sportsman, which would make it pretty early.

[rugerwheels]

Perhaps one of these contacts could lead to more information:
Here is an old auction for a 22 Special
http://www.gunsamerica.com/976733796/Guns/Pistols/Harrington-Richardson-Pistols/H_R_quot_22_SPECIAL_quo.htm
Joe Salter has one for sale
http://www.joesalter.com/detail.php?f_qryitem=7341
Here is a thread on Highroad.com that might yield some results
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=293314
Good luck.
Don

[WmRoy]

Sure Looks Like the Ticket to me......... ;) :blob1:

[Silverspring]

Well that sure looks like it - glad to see it's not a Frankenpistol.

I'm still interested in when it must have been made, though. If it came before the Sportsman, it must be Pre-1934, correct?

There's also that hammer rebound issue. Does anybody know if it's supposed to stay all the way down until fired again, or if it's malfunctioning? I suppose a little minor disassembly and cleaning couldn't hurt, but I'd rather not invest in a trip to the smith if nothing's actually wrong.

[32 Magnum]

Silverspring,
What you have is exactly what it's marked: the H&R "22 Special". It was derived from the "Automatic Ejecting" Model. Earliest production of this model was circa 1925. With that serial number it is a very late production piece, probably what we're calling the 4th Variation and was made after 1934, probably as late as 1935 or 36. It is similar to the Sportsman, but the Sportsman series, even though derived from the 22 Special - evolved in it's own direction with help from the H&R Single Shot Match - USRA Target pistol. Your piece is in no way related to the "Premier" Model, which had a smaller frame, etc. The front sight was gold plated and through out it's period of manufacture, the 22 Special had fixed front and rear sights. The pieces made after circa 1932 had one piece grips and and bird's head shaped grip frame, which is known as the "Rice" frame. The hammer is NOT rebounding. I would be interested in knowing if your cylinder is "free wheeling" or not, when the hammer is at rest, I'm betting it's not. Is your front sight "notched" or oval in contour? The cylinder should have a "rebate" or recessed 'safety' face and there may be two patent numbers stamped into it. The last one I sold at auction, from slightly before your guns DOM and in about 95+% finish went for over $300. If you have any other questions, please post - also, please let me know answers to questions or post pics. Thanks.
Here's a couple pics of what I think your piece looks like:
http://links.pictures.aol.com/pic/e6b0du1Fhf8Q6Y4DUAnjw186DcgroryIDOTQv4xQp5Fd3Ig=_l .jpg
http://links.pictures.aol.com/pic/e6b0du1Fhf8Q6Y4DUAnjw186DRz*Dt9pJeBtv4xQp5Fd3Ig=_l .jpg

also, here's a picture showing the comparison between a "22 Special" and a first Model Sportsman, both from around 1932 era:
http://links.pictures.aol.com/pic/d000w-UU2IQKJ7MK4nLfW6uEkbb-iBSGTCbav4xQp5Fd3Ig=_l.jpg

I saw your pics. Your piece is as described above. Sorry, I didn't wait for them to down load on first viewing. In late Spring or early Summer of 2008, there will be a book published which will be the FIRST comprehensive history and listing of H&R Firearms. If you're interested in this segment, keep an eye open for it. Also, watch for a complete rewrite of the H&R section of the Blue Book for the 29th Edition.

[Silverspring]

Thanks, .32 Magnum. Awesome detail, I truly appreciate it - especially the note about the non-rebounding hammer. It seems like a potentially dangerous design flaw. If the pistol was snapped closed with the hammer down on a live round it could go off. Still, good to know it's not a malfunction, I'll just have to be careful.

Your guess on the cylinder was also correct - not freewheeling.

I didn't buy it for it's $ value, but it's good to know I don't have to feel bad for not trying to bargain the shop owner down from $175.

If the book you're working on has even a fraction of the detailed knowledge you've demonstrated on this forum, I can't wait for it to come out. Keep us posted!

[32 Magnum]

Silverspring,
You're welcome. When the book is published, I'll post the details.

[A square 10]

i have one as listed - 9 shot sportsman , is there a place to get a date ? mine was my fathers , it was suposedly won in a raffle in the 30s and it went thru a house fire in the 80s , im seeing "22 long rifle ctg" on the right side of the bbl

this one is very tight and yet the grips are very old looking
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r188/Asquare10/mikesrifles030.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r188/Asquare10/mikesrifles031.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r188/Asquare10/mikesrifles033.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r188/Asquare10/mikesrifles035.jpg

[32 Magnum]

A Square 10,
See my response in the "Sportsman" thread.
Jim H.

[A square 10]

i have done so and thank you very much , it confirms what i had been told - he did in fact win it in a raffle in or about 37 and it was refinished after the fire in the 80s which didnt really reach this part of the house , except to soot/smoke and water damage a lot of things that didnt get recovered as quickly as we had hoped , im sure hes pleased i still have it - and im pleased to know its still what it was when he was a kid