Best Battle Rifle of WWII?

[CoorsLightGuy]

Ok.....if YOUR life depended on it and you could choose any of these battle rifles of WWII.......which would you choose?

[DOGolden]

Battle Rifle huh? I have to think about that one for a minute. Okay, I am back and undecided!

Okay, I have made a decision. Based on the term battle rifle I am assuming something big, cumbersome, and heavy. A rifle probably designed and manufactured prior to World War II. I will go with the Mosin Nagant series of rifles for the following reasons:


Easily mass produced {just exactly how many were made}?
Very few moving parts.
Somewhat accurate {as accurate as any other rifle I think}.
Headspace issue not a real concern {oh boy, here it comes}.
7.62X54R has some stopping power.
Rifle can be used by anyone quite easily.
Reliable.


Yes, most of them are ugly. Yes, most of them were crudely manufactured. But, when push comes to shove, they will kill you!

Final word? Yes, final word: m91 series! :dontknow:

[DOGolden]

Okay, I just now saw the poll posted {I voted for the Nagants}. Interesting that you mention the k31? And interesting that you also mentioned the MAS36. I think that in all probability the k31's saw more combat time than the MAS36's {relax guys, it was a funny}. :p

I admire the French MAS36 design even though it does not have a safety. The bolt comes apart in four pieces quite easily.

[Herr Mario]

..............GARAND




.................................................. ...:icon_cheers: :icon_cheers: :icon_cheers: :icon_cheers: :icon_cheers: :usa2: :occasion14:

[CoorsLightGuy]

I added the Swiis K-31 simply because it was manufactured during the same period and that it's so darn accurate. It wasn't really a "battle rifle" I don't suppose, but it should certainly be considered if your butt is on the line.

[DOGolden]

Okay, no problem. But I still say the Nagant! :protest:

[CoorsLightGuy]

I chose the M1 Garand.......which as far as I'm concerned has only a couple of drawbacks.

#1: The darn thing is so heavy.

#2: The fact that ammo cannot be loaded individually, therefore you better make sure that you have plenty of "enbloc" Garand clips loaded.

Number 2 seems to be the one that most who don't prefer the Garand point to and to be honest they have a point. However, the obvious (at least to me) advantages of the Garand over the others outweigh this.

[Herr Mario]

....agreed...if SHTF....I want it over the others...I anit refering to sittin' in cover pickin' off the enemy...:D

[Rockman]

M-1 Garand. The Germans thought there were squads of men armed with Machine guns in the first weeks we got involved with them. I don't find them too heavy or cumbersome, and usually you had more than enough en-blocs available. My Dad carried one in WWII and he never had a complaint, just praise. I'd also take a .303 or the 7.6x54Rmm too.

[Mosko]

I don't think personally the question of the "best battle rifle" can be answered without some parameters.

If only reliability and number of enemy soldiers killed are considered, the Mosin would win, because of the millions of them, and millions soldiers firing them, and their absolute reliability and simplicity.

If you consider reliability, and multiplication of firepower of existing numbers of troups, and keeping the soldier alive, it would have to be the Garand, if for no other reason, just because it was a reliable semi auto.

[CoorsLightGuy]

If you read my original post the scenario is that your butt is in a sling, there are a pile of rifles laying on the ground, with ammo right beside them.

You can chose any rifle you want to try and keep from becoming room temperature. You can only choose one rifle w/ammo. Which do you choose?

[Mosko]

Oh, in that case, the semi auto naturally! I would absolutely need to "multiply" myself for sure.

[WmRoy]

If you read my original post the scenario is that your butt is in a sling, there are a pile of rifles laying on the ground, with ammo right beside them.

You can chose any rifle you want to try and keep from becoming room temperature. You can only choose one rifle w/ammo. Which do you choose?

Probably would be the first rifle I got my hands on.....:xxrotflmao: :BangHead: :D a/k/a the closest!!!
:devil-smiley-1: :D :devil-smiley-1: :BangHead:

[Mosko]

Or maybe the first 3 or 4, but according to CLG's scenario, we must be wounded and only have one workable arm, with which to pick up a weapon!

Woops, how would we load it then?:confused:

[xpertgreg]

Woops, how would we load it then?:confused:


Brings a whole new meaning to the term "Garand thumb" don't it?

:xxrotflmao:

gw

[txpete]

sat down a thought about this one for a while.
french nope never fired dropped once
swiss nope the only combat the k-31 saw was boot nails from its own soliders
M1 nope only because I don't like them ping
mosin nagant and K98K...K98K got my vote

I would have put the M28/30 on the list along with 1903 and A3's might have voted there.
pete

[Herr Mario]

...k98 woulda been my second choice...close,but still second....can lay down fire faster and still keep target in sites/not work a bolt-ergo if SHTF....keep bad guys away or down-Garand...:wav: :love4: :naka: :xxrotflmao:

[WmRoy]

The k-31 may never have seen battle but the k-31 makes ANY mauser seem like a klunky old rifle!! Never shoot your k-31 first when going to the range..... if you do everything else will feel like.....well you know...:D

The straight bolt while perhaps slower than the garand is still much quicker then the rest of the bolt guns. Plus you can top it off and it won't tell your enemies when yer empty.....:eek: :p .... if you were lucky you might even have extra mags..... course strippers (if you have em) are probably just as fast as changing the mag..... if you're good at it no doubt faster....

GO SWISS................:duel: :duel:

[sc-closer]

GARAND!!!!!!!!! No Question! :icon_cheers:

Unless there was a M-14 lying around, I'd go for the M1. Besides, who can argue with General Patton? :icon_salut:

sc-closer

[sc-closer]

Ok, who are the wiseguys who voted for the k-31 :tard: ....speak up!:director:

:dontknow:

sc-closer :laughing3: :laughing3:

[sc-closer]

Plus you can top it off and it won't tell your enemies when yer empty.....:eek: :p ....
GO SWISS

Ok, so you're one of the Swissies...:xxrotflmao:

Ya see, that's why you carry extra empty clips in your pocket...give 'em a quick toss and when the Cocoa drinker jumps up to shoot at you with his k-31..:ar15: you plug his alpine butt! :xxrotflmao:

It's called STRA-TE-GER-Y...learn it, use it, live it! :D

sc-closer

[Ash]

:D I'm the other one that voted for the Swiss K31.
Hey, in this 'scenerio', I assumed I'd be sitting at the foot of the Swiss Alps picking off my enemies from afar. :dontknow:
:p

[txpete]

The k-31 may never have seen battle but the k-31 makes ANY mauser seem like a klunky old rifle!! Never shoot your k-31 first when going to the range..... if you do everything else will feel like.....well you know...:D

The straight bolt while perhaps slower than the garand is still much quicker then the rest of the bolt guns. Plus you can top it off and it won't tell your enemies when yer empty.....:eek: :p .... if you were lucky you might even have extra mags..... course strippers (if you have em) are probably just as fast as changing the mag..... if you're good at it no doubt faster....

GO SWISS................:duel: :duel:

I have and still would pick a K98K:)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/txpete/k31.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/txpete/22k31.jpg

[Rustybore]

Although a Mauser guy, I think it has been accepted by all those involved in WWII that the Garand was the battle rifle of choice, semi-auto and dependable in most conditions. I bought one back in the eighties from DCM and have yet to fire it. I like Mausers, and recentley, have discovered the Enfields and am enjoying shooting them.

Kevin in Or.

[WmRoy]

Unless there was a M-14 lying around

sc-closer

Well, I'll go along with ya there........... I'd take the M-14 too.......... but wait that's not in the running......... oh well............... I'll keep my Swiss gal......... have you ever heard of anyone smashing their thumb in a k-31???
:devil-smiley-1: :D :devil-smiley-1: :D :devil-smiley-1: :D :devil-smiley-1: :D :devil-smiley-1:

:xxrotflmao:

[SAC22PPC]

even though i have never fired one....i would say the m1carbine...small gun, clip magazine. i did however vote for the m1 garand since its the next best thing...
i would not want to carry the garand for long, the carbine would be a real joy and besides how often are you going to be shooting a mi?
small ammo(aka MORE ammo), clip, small/light gun.


0] SAC22PPC 0]

[WmRoy]

Ok, so you're one of the Swissies...:xxrotflmao:

Ya see, that's why you carry extra empty clips in your pocket...give 'em a quick toss and when the Cocoa drinker jumps up to shoot at you with his k-31..:ar15: you plug his alpine butt! :xxrotflmao:
sc-closer


Have you heard the story about the German General who was visiting with a Swiss General (during WWII)..... he says to the Swiss General, "you only have 500,000 men in your Army, what will you do if I invade you with 1,000,000 men?".......... to which the Swiss General says "we'll each shoot twice and go home"..........

:D :grinning-thumbsup: :D :grinning-thumbsup: :D

[Rockman]

Please do not confuse a clip with a magazine. An M-1 Garand takes a Clip, and M-1 Carbine takes a Magazine. ;) I'll stick to the M-1 Garand / Carbine in this debate even the M-14 / M-1 Carbine even though they are not mentioned here. M-39 / 91 - 30 bolt rifle, and the .303 Brit. too. K98K comes in the tail end of my pick here. Even the K-11 Swiss too.

Argue with General Patton? Treason there SC-Closer. ;)

So to sum it up: M-1 Garand for me, thank you. ;)

P.S., The Garand can be "topped off" so to speak. It is not easy but it can be done. Take a Garand with two rounds left, open the action carefully and insert the 6 rounds needed to "top off" the clip and voila. I've done it and it has been done before according to the older Vets I know too. When the Garand has two rounds left and you need to open the action to "top off" the clip, one of the remaining rounds will eject, if you are "careless" but the clip can be re-charged with the 6 or 7 rounds you'll need to "top it off". Save the "KLANG" then.

[CoorsLightGuy]

The reason that I didn't include the M-14 or the SKS for example, is that both were post WWII rifles.

All of the above were at least manufactured and/or in use during WWII. If the gun wasn't made until AFTER WWII, then it obviously couldn't be laying on the battlefield as an option.

I had to set a limit somewhere or we'd be talking about Ak-47's/Ak-74's, FAL's, etc. I purposely didn't include any LMG's, etc. I tried to stick with what was considered the standard rifle issued to the typical dog soldier of WWII.

I started not to include the M-1 Garand, as it was semi-auto compared to all the others being bolt action of some sort. However, since it WAS the standard issue rifle for the U.S. and was such an important part of WWII, it had to be included.

An argument could be made for almost every rifle on the list (well maybe not the Arisaka's).

The Garand because it's a semi-auto, reliable and accurate.

The Enfield for it's ammo capacity, accuracy, reliability, fast action.

The Kar98k for it's reliablity, accuracy, smooth action.

The Swiss K-31 for it's incredible accuracy and fine workmanship.

The Mosin-Nagant for it's reliability & accuracy. Note I didn't mention it's action. While it's a strong action, when compared to a Mauser action, it sucks.

I'm sure there are some out there that are smooth and flawless, if you polish them down enough, but I've yet to grab a "run of the mill" Mosin and find one that was a pleasure to shoot. I own an M44, I like it ok, but I'll be damned if I understand what all the fuss is about. :dontknow:

[Rockman]

CLG, I wouldn't say the Mosin / M-39 Finn capture like mine "sucks", it is just different than the Mauser. You own the M-44, not a bad carbine, but the rifles are better for accuracy and less recoil, not that recoil bothers me when I'm wearing my milspec issue flak jacket to shoot because of problematic shoulders.

I understand your limitations here, no problem. My Dad is a WWII Veteran though. He preferred the M-1 Garand over anything he saw and had a chance to mess with though. He is an E.T.O. Veteran and was a Master Sergeant too in the 45th I.D. attached to the Big Red One. Who, in turn fought side by side with the 82nd AB, a "unit" I was in turn "associated" with as well, much later on in the years. Dog faces? Yup, there are two in my family, Dad and me. ;) I was an E-5 and Dad was an E-8.

You could have included the M-1903 or the M-1917 too though, they were used in WWII in great lengths too. I "aced" WWII history in school too, why not? My Dad was there. ;) :usa2: :occasion14:

Although the Arisaka is a collector rifle, try buying ammo for it. Yeah right! NORMA is way too expensive. Try finding surplus ammo worth a hoot, it ain't happenin'. I'm not an Arisaka fan by any means. I'll take an ARVN rifle over any Arisaka. Never fired and only dropped once. ;) LOL! I loathe the M-16's, but I'll take one over any Arisaka, mum intact or not. IMHO as a joke here, I think the idea of the mum on the Arisaka was when the Emporer was having a "gay moment". ;) LOL! Edit if need be, but this my opinion. Sarge Out.

[txpete]

I really think the 1903-a3 should have also been in the mix here.the marines sure used it until enough M-1's filtered down.
K-31 while a excellent military rifle how can it even fit in as a battle rifle when it wasn't in combat:dontknow: I like them accurate smooth just un-proven in battle.
jap T-99 not a bad rifle but a little rough and the last ditch rifles were just flat crap.
french rifles well atleast they saw action and even used by the french in viet nam so I guess they are a proven design but they are french so I never got into them.
the mosin nagant now there is a battle rifle.the oldest military round and still in use today.the finn's I believe stopped making the M39 in 1970.

M16 don't even get started there:) the first one I was issued didn't even have a fwd asst on it.the A1 wasn't a bad battle rifle as long as you kept it clean..clean..clean.the A2 was a better issue but again clean is a major issue with them.I will say alot more accurate than a A1.the 5.56 is a great round up close but for long range out past 300 meters lacks the power.I guess thats why the army went back to issue the M14 for snipers at platoon level in iraq.

just my .02 which is worthless from a old solider.
pete
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/txpete/1cd1.gif

[CoorsLightGuy]

The reason I didn't include the 03 or 03-A3 was because I wanted to only include one rifle from each country. Listing the Garand and a bolt action 03 together as one choice wouldn't make sense as they are dramatically different weapons. All of the others group together, are essentially the same weapons.

Again, I realized that the K-31 wasn't a true battle rifle, but it was WWII era and in this scenario, you didn't have to carry in through the "Battle of the Bulge", just get your butt out of a crack.

[sc-closer]

Well, if you drop the M1 off the list, I'd go with the Enfield. Now, it is well known that I am a Mauser sort of guy, but if I had to go into battle with a bolt gun on that list, I'd go Enfield. They were reliable, rugged, had a fast action and held 10 rounds. Some No 4 Mk 1 had some real nice sights on them, too, so you could use the standard peep for combat or flip it up and adjust for sniping. In WWI, the Enfield was considered a superior combat weapon by many in the know compared to the GEW 98 mainly due to the speed in which it could be fired and ammo capacity. The Enfield was still superior in those qualities (and sights as well) in WWII, but the Germans' use of sub machine guns and other automatic weaponry in their squads evened the playing field.

I'm not a big Enfield guy, but you have to give that rifle its due.

sc-closer

[CoorsLightGuy]

Yep, even though I love the K-31.......if the Garand is off the list, I think I'd have to go with the Enfield, for the reasons mentioned. Fast, accurate, 10 rounds per mag.

[Rockman]

Pete, You are not a useless ol' Vet. Congrats to what you did and Thank You kindly, an ol' E-5 said that here. ;)

[WmRoy]

I'm going to bump this one...........

What's your second choice???

I think I might go with the Enfield myself.......... ;)

Though I still think my first choice would be the first one I could grab.......... ;)

[Gewehrmann]

M1 always, if it's off the list, K98, mainly because I'm used to them. The K-31 is a great shooter, but I don't really think the straight-pull action is that fast and smooth, at least not the ones I've shot, and reloading is slow.

IMHO, that story about the enemy hearing your M1 clip go "ping" and knowing you're empty is a non-starter made up by gun writers. The M1 is very quick to reload, and you can jam in another clip faster than somebody could stand up and be on you.

[CoorsLightGuy]

IMHO, that story about the enemy hearing your M1 clip go "ping" and knowing you're empty is a non-starter made up by gun writers. The M1 is very quick to reload, and you can jam in another clip faster than somebody could stand up and be on you.

Also, the enemy hearing the ping of your en bloc clip can be an advantage. You simply toss a spare one out there to make him think you're empty, when in fact, you've got a full clip loaded and waiting for him to make his move.

[Gewehrmann]

I just have a hard time imagining all those krauts, Japs, chi-coms, and various other enemy troops crouching in the bushes listening for a little metallic "ping". If somebody was shooting at me with an M1, I think I'd have other things to think about.

[WmRoy]

I agree with you G-mann...............

Course I don't care which of the weapons you choose, you are likely busy keeping alive........

Besides, in battle I can't believe you're hearing things that well......... I'd imagine it as being very noisy!

[CoorsLightGuy]

Besides, in battle I can't believe you're hearing things that well......... I'd imagine it as being very noisy!

Right.......I'd imagine that about 5 minutes of trench warfare with another 5-10 Mausers or Mosins going off right beside you, you'd be stone deaf.

[DOGolden]

My 2nd vote would be for the k98..

[old knife buddy]

1-m1 garand 2- enfield 10 rd 3- k98 4-mosin nagand 91/30 reverse in -20 weather

[duncaninfrance]

My 2nd vote would be for the k98..

Don't know why, it's not a patch on an Enfield. An Enfield will fire twice as many rounds a minute as a Mauser because it has a better cycle and you don't have to take it out of your shoulder to chamber a fresh round. I have a K98k and a No:4 MkI and I know which I would rather fight with :)

[iquitos]

M-1 as my first choice, probably the Brit 2nd. The one Brit I got from Stan a while back is a real dang good shooter.

[deadwood]

Don't own an M1 or anything French (ugh) and nothing Swiss has been in battle, but have at least one of each of the others. Of those the Enfield if far and away the best - 10 round mag, fast action, light (relatively at any rate), and accurate. The rest I would arrange as [2] Mauser (accurate), [3] T99 Arisaka (love the chrome lined barrel), and last [4] the lowly Mosin Nagant (rugged, but crappy workmanship).

[duncaninfrance]

I might be interesting to discover how many MAS rifles were used in WWII, I would think that Free French forces would have been issued with the Enfield...........

[TXCoyote23]

I believe I know a few things about the M1 Grand rifle, and everyone is allowed to correct me if I'm wrong.

Even though the rifle was created by an American, the design was from a German immigrant... but I might be wrong.

[Stan in SC]

I never heard the German immigrant thing before.I thought John Garand designed it.

Stan in SC

[TXCoyote23]

I heard that from an old school teacher of mine... God rest his soul.

[ccmsd]

Duncan,

approx 63,000 MAS36, among the estimated 250,000 produced, were delivered to the units before 1940.
The French Foreign Legion Regiment (of the 13th DBLE) which operated in Narvik was equipped with MAS36.

Cheers
ccmsd

[duncaninfrance]

Thanks Jean :grinning-thumbsup:

[Dryfire]

M1 Garand.... Just a great gun :headbanger:

[Edbythesea]

Does anybody know anything about HANIEL SCHMEISSER 25 auto pistols

[Stan in SC]

Edbythsea,

If you will Google the name you will get a lot of information.

Stan in SC

[JimV]

Wow, this is actually a very tough question when you think about it. It's like looking at a line of super models and having to pick out the best one. I picked Mauser but admit that the nagant is just as good a bolt action and the garand is one of the finest semi auto's ever made. I guess it depends on the battle conditions your in at the time.

[ninjashoes]

Went with the M-1, glad to see people on this forum arent stupid.

[Shuban]

British Enfield.. can be.