Need help IDing an old rifle, please - 1800s??

[Itzomi]

First of all, please excuse me if I'm posting this in the wrong forum. I'm not sure where it should go!

Here is something I inherited and I don't know what it is. I see no maker name on it. Anyone recognize this?? Any idea what it may be worth?? It's very heavy & very long, and I think some parts are made of silver.

Thank you so much in advance!!!

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y5/itzomi/Misc/IM001145.jpg

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http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y5/itzomi/Misc/IM001119.jpg

[rugerwheels]

Hi Itzomi and welcome to this Forum. Others more knowledgeable than me will probably weigh in on this but I believe your gun is what is know as an Original percussion Kentucky rifle. These are important weapons in the history of gun development and especially American guns. The term Kentucky is something of a misnomer as you will find out with some research. Values are not easy to determine, with maker (if known), type of wood, design of patch box, materials of inlays including patch box, etc. being variables to consider. You can begin to get some idea of values and a lot more information about these with a Google search. Here is a Google book online that will provide some information (scroll down to page 353 for a photo that resembles your rifle).

http://books.google.com/books?id=tFuN-JNoOhkC&pg=PA107&lpg=PA107&dq=original+percussion+kentucky+rifle&source=bl&ots=v3BOfWtlB-&sig=KmEHRdJAb3MTF3GlUQHT87-9KyQ&hl=en&ei=JXc7SvXeKJaYMsO2-J8O&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=40

Here is an short article on these rifles:

http://www.americanlongrifles.com/american-longrifle-kentucky-rifle-story.htm

Hope this helps.

Don

[Itzomi]

Don, you are a gem!! I will read those later tonight after work!!

I appreciate so much your looking up those thinks for me. People here are very kind!!

[Itzomi]

Don, I posted the same question one other place and got a reply... They said, "That looks to me like one of the many cap and ball rifles made in northern Ohio and southern Canada around the early 1900's..." Please tell me that's not true... I was hoping this was much older and worth something.

Might you know the worth of this rifle - ballpark figure??

Going to post a few more pictures...

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[Itzomi]

Continued.... More pictures....


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[32 Magnum]

My take on this piece:
It is a double set trigger, heavy barreled, bench rest rifled bore target rifle.
The engraving shows some German/Austrian influence. The deep crescent butt plate with extended top lip reinforces the target or "schutzen" rifle impression as does the extention of the trigger guard to provide a hand hold/finger rest. The fittings are made of "German Silver", an alloy of Copper, Nickel and Zinc - this is evident from the greenish corrosion on the underside of the patch box cover. The double set triggers allowed most of the sear pressure to be relieved by pulling the first trigger, allowing a very very light precise trigger pull of the second to fire the piece. It appears to have been used quite extensively and I'm almost certain that the percussion cap holder/nipple was replaced at some point - there appears to be a wooden repair piece added just to the front of this.
This type of firearm was very popular for target shooting beginning in the 1870's and extending up to around 1920's, well into the era of metallic/self contained cartridges. I have seen German and Austrian made pieces that were extremely ornate, fitted with very highly figured wooden furniture and extensively engraved that have sold to collectors in excess of $10,000. Yours is of lesser finish and fitting and has rather crude engraving, also the screws are hardware store types and not typical of high end guns - on which the smith would have custom made them himself. I would estimate, in its present condition, the piece would sell for less than $1,000 to a dedicated collector.
Without any makers marks or proof marks, the odds are it is one of a kind made by a Gunsmith in the USA, during the time period described above.
The information you received on the other site, may very well be right on the spot. There is/was a fairly large number of German immigrants in that region (I come from that same stock) and an immigrant gunsmith could very well have made your gun, with whatever meager resources he could muster or at a price level that the customer could afford.
Nice old piece of history. Enjoy.

[Itzomi]

My take on this piece:
It is a double set trigger, heavy barreled, bench rest rifled bore target rifle.
The engraving shows some German/Austrian influence. The deep crescent butt plate with extended top lip reinforces the target or "schutzen" rifle impression as does the extention of the trigger guard to provide a hand hold/finger rest. The fittings are made of "German Silver", an alloy of Copper, Nickel and Zinc - this is evident from the greenish corrosion on the underside of the patch box cover. The double set triggers allowed most of the sear pressure to be relieved by pulling the first trigger, allowing a very very light precise trigger pull of the second to fire the piece. It appears to have been used quite extensively and I'm almost certain that the percussion cap holder/nipple was replaced at some point - there appears to be a wooden repair piece added just to the front of this.
This type of firearm was very popular for target shooting beginning in the 1870's and extending up to around 1920's, well into the era of metallic/self contained cartridges. I have seen German and Austrian made pieces that were extremely ornate, fitted with very highly figured wooden furniture and extensively engraved that have sold to collectors in excess of $10,000. Yours is of lesser finish and fitting and has rather crude engraving, also the screws are hardware store types and not typical of high end guns - on which the smith would have custom made them himself. I would estimate, in its present condition, the piece would sell for less than $1,000 to a dedicated collector.
Without any makers marks or proof marks, the odds are it is one of a kind made by a Gunsmith in the USA, during the time period described above.
The information you received on the other site, may very well be right on the spot. There is/was a fairly large number of German immigrants in that region (I come from that same stock) and an immigrant gunsmith could very well have made your gun, with whatever meager resources he could muster or at a price level that the customer could afford.
Nice old piece of history. Enjoy.

Very interesting!! Gosh, I almost feel as thought the history of this gun came alive while reading your post. I know that, apparently, collectors care more about the make of the guns and whatnot but, to me, if this was made my some poor individual and he slaved over it by the sweat of his brow, wow, to me that has more "worth" than something that has thousands of copies made just like it.

Thank you so much for your time and expertise. I really appreciate your and everyone's thoughtful input!!!!!