Walther PPK info?

[Youngjim]

I own a Walther PPK that appears to be from about 1939. It came with an Officer's leather holster in pretty decent condition for it's age. The weapon is in good condition.
I would appreciate any advice in ascertaining the actual history and date of origin of this weapon. I'm considering selling it if the value is there.

[rugerwheels]

Welcome to this Forum. To give you date of origin and possible historic notes we would need the serial number (X out the last two or three digits if it makes you more comfortable, example 2013XXK) and the markings on the pistol. Photos of both sides of the pistol would also be helpful.

[Youngjim]

Hi Don, thanks for getting back. I can include a couple of pics if that would be helpful.
3714

3715

3716

See if this will help you! Jim

[rugerwheels]

Hi Jim,
Your PPK (civilian model) was made in 1935. From 1938 until end of Nazi production in 1945, the serial numbers were six numbers followed by a suffix "K" and they never got as high as 885562. It should have a 90 degree safety rather than the 60 degree safety which started in 1938. Let us know if we can help further.
Don

[Youngjim]

Thank you Don. I've checked on: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=239911397#PIC
and found a PPK in about the same condition as mine except for a cracked plastic grip on the one being shown at GunBroker.com. Mine has no damage at all.
I'm just wondering if I should expect to be able to sell mine for somewhere in the neighborhood of the price shown at this site?? I'd appreciate your opinion of the use of a broker type website to sell this gun. Or is there a way to offer it on your site?

[rugerwheels]

The Gunbroker offering at the moment has had no bids. Suggest you add the listing to your watch list and see what the outcome of the offering is. I would be surprised if there are any bids considering the $1,800 Starting Bid required much less the Buy Now price of $2,300. The seller says in his ad: "Here is an early made Walther PPK procured by the German Nazi party and distributed to an Nazi or SS party official." He doesn't specifically say so but it appears that this pistol may be an RZM marked specimen (in my view the ad should highlight this if it is indeed an RZM mark). That would be the circular mark on the left side of the slide above the magazine release and forward of the slide grip. RZM (Reichs Zeug Meisterei, or Reich Justice Ministry) marked PPK's bring at least twice the price of civilian models which, based on your photos, yours appears to be. I believe Gunbroker and AuctionArms to be reputable outlets for this type of gun. The P.38 Forum which covers PPK's as well as P.38's is another possible sales outlet. Just be sure to be accurate with your description, particularly as regards condition, markings, matching of serial numbers and photos that show all of the pistol.

[Youngjim]

Don,
A final inquiry.... I discovered those markings you mentioned on the slide and the barrel assembly. I'm just not sure because they're so small. The "Z" is quite readable but the other symbol is very hard to discern.

Also, the Leather Officer's Holster has a strap that keeps it closed and snaps onto a metal button. That strap broke off as I was opening it, probably just from age and the threads just disintegrating. Should I get the strap repaired? Does the condition of the holster affect the value of the overall piece?
Oh yes, when the strap broke, I happened to look under the flap and discovered something stamped into the underflap. It looks like "D.R.G.M." with an ensigna under that consisting of two leafs behind two crossed rifles with "Akata" or Akafa stamped under it. I'm just wondering if that has any meaning as to the history of the piece?

I took a couple of pictures so you could see what I'm referring to.

[rugerwheels]

The holster was sold by AKAH (Albrecht Kind, GMBH), then and now a large sporting goods company in Germany. DRGM means Deutsches Reichs Gebrauchmeister, a form of patent.

Your holster may or may not be an officer's holster. Some branches of service were brown for officers, some black; but since your pistol is not stamped with military acceptance stamps it is likely to have been owned by a civilian who could have purchased either color, or a civil administration official where the color varied depending on the branch.

I believe the hoster is worth repairing. The best repair person for holsters IMO is Jerry Burney. He will give you a quote based on photos and work to be done and he is competent, honest and reasonably priced. You can contact him at lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net or
lugerholsterrepair@yahoo.com .

I'm not sure the "Z" marking you found is an RZM marking. The photo below shows where the RZM marking can be found above the magazine and what it looks like.

Don't hesitate to ask more questions.
Don

[Youngjim]

Hi again Don,
The RZ marking in the picture you sent is definitely NOT on my piece. As you mentioned, my PPK appears to be a civilian version.
I must say, that PPK in the picture is in MINT condition and would make any collector proud to own. Incidentally, I browsed through some of the PPKs for sale on that site and noticed that they had a few pictures accompanying their offer. Is there any standard set of pictures that would be most effective in showing off the piece? Both sides, closeups of any pertinent stamped material on the slide and serial number?
I would guess that most collectors would prefer a weapon that had never been fired. Mine apparently had seen some action and shows some wear from the holster and general age. I've fired it myself.
I'll contact Jerry and see what he needs to repair that strap. You certainly have your PPK info right on hand. I really appreciate all the help.
I've not tried to sell a weapon before and see that there are some details that must be covered. The financial arrangements through a local dealer and the website. I'm assuming that there will be transfer of ownership paperwork that will have to be presented as well. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again Don for all the info and advice! Regards, Jim

[rugerwheels]

Here is one summary of the ins and outs of shipping a handgun:
http://www.thegunzone.com/ship-guns.html . You can find more info by Googling "shipping handguns".

In advertising a gun for sale the more information and photos the better. The description is important including condition, markings, and whether serial numbers match.

[Youngjim]

Wow Don! The Gun Zone link was very enlightening and made it clear that I have to be careful about packaging and selection of carrier for sending a firearm. UPS seems to be the most accommodating of the various shipping services. They require the weapon be sent from a licensed dealer to a licensed dealer.

This is a little premature since I don't have a buyer yet.

You mentioned about a serial number "Match". The only place I saw a serial number on the PPK was on the area just behind the trigger guard assembly. Is there some other place that I should be looking for matching serial number info?

I will make sure that I have sufficient photos showing all the angles of the piece.

Once again Don, thank you for all your help and advice. Regards, Jim

[Youngjim]

Don! Just a quick Thank You for recommending Jerry Burney for the Leather repair on the PPK holster. He did a masterful job and in record turn around time! I couldn't be more pleased!!
Now I have to assemble all the appropriate info on Gun Broker.com so I can sell the PPK. I have some pictures which I assume you may have seen on this site. I'm just wondering if there are other "angles" that should be included that I might have missed!?
I'm also curious as to how I can arrive at a fair price and yet make it attractive to a prospective buyer. It's hard to know what range is sensible based on some of the offerings I've seen so far.
Once again, thanks for recommending Jerry B.

Regards, Jim ;-)

[rugerwheels]

Hi Jim,
Glad the holster rehab was successful. Jerry is the best. The only practical way I know to get an approximation on the market value is to monitor gunbroker.com, auctionarms.com and http://www.p38forum.com/. Then you have to be sure you are comparing apples to apples. Below are two recent Auction Arms ads that do a good job with pictures and descriptions.
http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=10157528
http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=10480771

The offering in the first of these ads has an extra finger extension magazine which adds $300 to 400 to the value. The crack on the grip is a negative. The earlier mfg. date of your pistol adds to the value compared to this one.

The second one benefits from being Nazi proofed but has a pesky grip crack. Its second magazine doesn't add much value because it is not correct for the gun.

With a good ad you will obtain the market value of your pistol on that day because of course the market value is what someone will pay. On GB and AA you can put on a reserve price and/or a buy it now price and let the auction determine value. On the P.38/PPK Forum, you cannot conduct an auction but must post a specific asking price (you may get some email offers at a lower price than the posting).

Hope this helps.
Don